My tort keeps trying to bite my new tort

[baxter]

Well it's been about 8 weeks since I got my new rt and I finally put them together, I couldn't wait any longer and the younger one was dying to get to Baxter, wants to be with him. It did not go well to say the least. Baxter, my older one, keeps trying to bite Bruno, my younger one .

They have been seeing each other on the tort table which is divided with a screen all this time (except the first week or two), but that didn't seem to help at all. I can tell Bruno really wants to be friendly, but Baxter was furious, jerking his head and running after Bruno. I took Bruno out, as he was frightened. At first he just sat still, but when Baxter started to try and bite his feet and shell, Bruno ran with Baxter right behind. I'm so upset about this and very, very disappointed . I don't know what to do, I feel really bad for little Bruno and I wanted them to be together on the tort table, without a divider.

Also, I'm wondering if Bruno is a female after all, because it's really hard to tell at his size, 4". I had no idea Baxter would be so mean when I went and bought Bruno who is so sweet. I tried different locations of putting them together...outside, inside, on the tort table (both sides) and it doesn't matter where, Baxter gets mean!!. I really need some help and ideas of what to do, so Baxter won't bite. Any ideas??

[Turbotort]

  i think we`ve had a conversation about this before 

xx 

They could just be sorting out who`s boss, 

[baxter]

i think we`ve had a conversation about this before 

But that conversation was before they were put together, in preparation in case of a problem. So what I got from that was to try using a squirt of water to his face if he tried to bite and that didn't work, doesn't stop him, so now I need more ideas .

Baxter has made it clear he's the boss, and Bruno doesn't even try to be the boss. So I'm hoping there are more ways to deal with this.

[Turbotort]

hhhmmmmmmmmmmm time, and wait and see. You`ll just have to keep an eye on them and feed seperately. You know i`ve got the same problem with charlie and i think i`ll have to seperate her as its still happening a year on.  It could also be that Baxters the male and Bruno`s the female and so you`ll be a granny soon, 
Will you let me have a hatchling if you do become a granny,

[baxter]

I'm not ready to be a granny yet,lol, I have to get Baxter to stop biting first. Also, I can't put them together for even a minute because Baxter just won't have it.

[Turbotort]

Just thought of something, try feeding Baxter till he`s totally full then mix him in. I find charlie bites only when shes hungry. She even bites in the bath too so watch for that, its just when you think your safe to leave them alone that something will happen. Good job youre at home.
You may have a f. and m.  on your hands though and the biting is they are all loved up!

[baxter]

ok I'll try getting him full up first, I don't think I've done that. But I've never had food in the picture anyway, but maybe if he's full he won't be mean. oh and I should try after a soak, he's real relaxed after his bath. Thanks Turbo

[Turbotort]

Hope it works for you, let us know how it all goes 

[baxter]

Here's an update...When Baxter went to bed for the night, I put little Bruno on Baxter's side of the table, and Bruno went to bed with him. Now how come Baxter will let him sleep with him, but nothing else? That doesn't make sense,lol . So they slept together all night without problems. Bruno always wakes up first (good thing), so he got up and basked...then later I got Baxter up and put him about 18" away from Bruno and he ignored Bruno until about 10 minutes later, Bruno couldn't take it anymore and went over to greet Baxter...well that did it...Baxter tried to bite him . So of course, Bruno has to go back to his own side of the table (for him to be safe).

If Bruno is a female, would Baxter jerk his head wildly (before he bites) or do they only do the wild head jerking to males? Anyone know? It's as if he's warning Bruno to get back or you'll get bit. He looks angry when he does this...I don't know if it's my imagination, but I could swear his eye expression changes!!.

[Turbotort]

OH DEAR  I think Baxter fancies Bruno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tefa has head bobbed to a stone (Remember me telling you) i really think that`s what males do before they do the love thing!!!!!

[baxter]

haha,lol, yikes if Baxter fancies Bruno, I'd hate to see what would happen if he didn't like him!!

New update...Bruno slept with Baxter again, goes good . They both were awake in the morning at 8:30 and Baxter came out all by himself (at 8:30 in the morning!!!)  which is crazy for him, he sleeps till 1 or 2:00 if I let him. Anyway, little Bruno looked afraid to come out, so I rubbed his shell and head to calm him, then he got the courage to come out. He parked himself right behind Baxter and plopped his head on Baxters shell, basking together, it was sooo adorable, but my heart was pounding away, just waiting for Baxter to make his move. So about 12 min. later, Baxter turns around and makes his biting attempt, I block him, Bruno runs and finds a barrier, and Baxter let him stay there for another 7 or 8 min. (while keeping his eye on him). So I took Bruno out, I don't want, don't want to over stress him.

It looks like some progress. I took a picture yesterday with Bruno's head on Baxter. I'll post it soon.

Oh, I noticed something. If Bruno approaches Baxter from the side or front, Baxter runs at him to attack. If Bruno approaches from behind, Baxter doesn't repond for a few min or so. Weird huh,lol.

[Turbotort]

yeah, give it time youre doing the right thing. My two everymorning sniff each others faces as if theyre meeting for the first time. Must admit thats scares me, i`ve been known to scream (Much to my husbands annoyance, lol) and move them apart on the odd ocassion thinking an eye would get bitten.
Just keep doing what youre doing and see if it improves, 

[baxter]

I know what you mean, I screamed when they first met because Baxter tried to take a chunk out of Bruno. I'm thinking maybe Bruno is a female, he acts like one, very gentle, just wants to be friends. I wonder if he was male, would Baxter be as mean.

[baxter]

This is Bruno basking behind Baxter. The pic is kinda dark because I didn't want to use a flash and disturb the few moments of harmony . The 2nd and 3rd pics are of Bruno trying to get over to Baxters side, I felt sorry for him because I couldn't let him over (quarantined).

[Turbotort]

Lovely pics, its a good job theyre similar size, heres a few links for you. I couldn`t find much info about fighting but according to what someone says in the first link the females tend not to bite as much as males but you can`t guarantee sex by who bites who. I think my Charlie may be a boy as she`s always biting and attacking and it`s been over a year. Maybe baxter and Bruno are both males and Baxters the alpha male 
I don`t think any of us can tell for sure though   
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2622
http://www.tortoisegroup.org/infosheet01.html
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/russiantortoisecombat.htm